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a topic to discuss

الموضوع في 'English & French Archive' بواسطة Forrest Gump, بتاريخ ‏6 سبتمبر 2008.

  1. Forrest Gump

    Forrest Gump كبير مراقبي منتدى الفرنسيّة و الانقليزيّة طاقم الإدارة

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      06-09-2008 03:09
    it's something that is always in my mind or let's say it's even my dream and my hope, it's simply the Arab union and i mean a real one and not like the one we have today.
    i'll give my self the chance to give you my point of view; most of people while talking about the arabian union, they compare it to the European one, for me i always believe that the european union came as a resualt of an economic competition with the USA, i mean that european companies like Airbus, British gaz, opel,BMW... wanted that union more than the european citizens did and this can be proved by the total failure of establishing a european constitution which shows a confession that they dont have really the common things to be commited in one constitution.
    talking about us, it's easily to find the common things between all the arab people (religion, background,identity,belonging,language, history, culture...etc) in addition to that we find we are very anxious to get that union.
    so brothers what do you think of that dream, can it be happined? if no why not and if yes then what's the problem? finaly, do we really have the right to dream about it?
     
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  2. Abuyassine

    Abuyassine كبار الشخصيات

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      06-09-2008 13:20
    Millions of people all over the Arab world do have that dream & they have a feverish desire for it to come true. Yet, my friend let me say that dreams are not enough. Yes, they are necessary but not sufficient. If we focus for moments on the history of Arab countries, we will be able to say that this history has been marked by struggles, conspiracies & the lack of trust. From the beginning of the Palestinian crisis, there was a lack of mutual support & understanding. Lots of countries seem to get themselves out of that problem as if it weren't theirs & as if those people weren't Arabs. And if you happen to watch Arabic channels today, you'll get that very clear message. They don't like to talk about that problem any more. That's something really shameful & embarrassing. I do think this Cause is the very heart of any Arabic unity. Moreover, if you focus on the Iraqi crisis, you'll understand that the problem is quite the same. I am by no means blaming ordinary people. No. These people have the desire for that unity. The problem, in fact, is bigger than that. If some courageous decisions were taken by our regimes, our situation would have been better a million times. Of course, one should always look at the future with hopes & smiling eyes. Who knows ? May be our future will bring better news & a nicer tomorrow
     
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  3. Dawn Caravan

    Dawn Caravan عضو مميز

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      06-09-2008 14:27
    I may quote Lawrence Arabia in this situation: "as long as arabs will stay fighting for narrow kabyle's pride and revenge they will always remain little people with little importance"

    Arabs have never been a union in their history even when they were a bunch of bedwins in Arabia,it's like what Adounis talks about,they are still the same people as they were 1500 years ago,they are driving fancy cars the same way they were riding camels,every arabian sub-culture is minding its own buisness with no consideration of their fellow arabs,Imean honestly even look at us what is our view of persian gulf's arab countries?and meanwhile what is our view of Algerians and moroccans?we always put those lasts in favour because in our depths we care about our sub-culture more,we care about being amazigh more than being arab.If arab pride wasreally worth something Turkey and Iran would've never abandoned this nation,and the sad truth is that they are
    better off without their arab identity

    It's till hard for me to imagine that arab union will someday see the light when I see that two neghbooring countries like Algeria and Morocco or Jordan and Syria have closed their mutual border.

    And yes I think the basis of the possible union are economical interests,arabs must stop considering it from their current narrow point of view,our partnership for example with the gulf countries I think can be very fruity.so to sum up,my point of view is pessimistic when it comes to arab identity and pride but optimestic when it comes to possible economical union
     
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  4. Forrest Gump

    Forrest Gump كبير مراقبي منتدى الفرنسيّة و الانقليزيّة طاقم الإدارة

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      06-09-2008 18:04
    i think both of you are right; lot of reasons that can make us pessimistic like the current situation and all this indifference towards important issues and others can make us optimistic like BraveXX said if our regimes take some decisions.
    however, i totally disgree with you my friend "Dawn Caravan" cause you are believing in these speeches telling that Arabian were and are and will never get unified which is i guess wrong because we had experienced some times that we were in union and i'll not speak about our profit's era but about the "abbasiya era" or even the nearest historical union between egypt syria, i know many see it as a failure but i see it a great experience that showed us that is good enough to have the willpower to do what we want. inaddition, that union was the idea of one arabian leader (Abd Nasser) so let's imagine that we have now 3 or 4 or even 5 leaders like Nasser, then i guess everything is possible
     
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  5. Abuyassine

    Abuyassine كبار الشخصيات

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      06-09-2008 19:26
    Firstly, let me thank you for enriching this hot & wonderful discussion. I do personally agree with you in lots of points, though I've some comment. You've mentioned Gamal Abdel-Nasser. Yes, that's true. He had done lots of nice things during his rule years & he had been a very charismatic politician for Arabs as well as for non-Arabs. No one can deny this. But friend the sorrowful thing is that these strong & charismatic leaders do not last long. Whenever they happen to get stronger & stronger, and whenever they happen to think of doing nice things for their nations they are encountered by opposition & hatred coming from inside & outside. History has repeated itself with the case of Saddam. So, for me, the problem is that this unity has a very weak percentage of seeing the light these days. The real obstacles are so clear : lack of trust, opposition, hatred, & the American hegemony. And as long as we haven't learned the lesson in the Gulf War, & as long as these regimes keep having contadicting views & approaches, the horizon will bring no rain. I'm feeling quite sad to say this, but there's nothing promising & encouraging. And if you remark sometimes some unity, it's only at the economic level & it's not between all countries
     
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  6. Dawn Caravan

    Dawn Caravan عضو مميز

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      06-09-2008 21:25
    my friend,we do have and did have arab nationalist leaders,Nasser,Saddam,Ali Abdalla Saleh,Al Assad,but the problem is that arabs are not behind their leaders,every single person have his different point of view that he wants to apply,that goes for leaders and for people,even the poeple are mainly mob,people who love opposing and tracking the mistakes of their leaders,the leaders on another hand,don't give importance to the dreams of their people,so no one is listening to anyone,it's quite a destructive mess,no one is really helping the deal of arabs.

    I do recommand you my friend to watch Lawrence Arabia it says a lot about this issue and not just because it's coming from strangers that is not true.

    I thank you for evoking the example of the Abbassia empire,I don't know if you read about the pre-islamic era in arabia,but it was an absolute rubbish,a jungle of greed,revenge,sin..but then a little time after Islam came,it could change that situation very effectively,it unfortunately did not last long,after the fitna,and the gradual disappearence of religious unity,I do not recall a time of effective union,yes they were glorious times but the truth is that narrow race issues remained,each ethnic group was conspiring against the other,planning to steal the throne,there was never a social peace,it was force that kept Abassia,Omaouia and Ottoman empires together
     
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  7. Forrest Gump

    Forrest Gump كبير مراقبي منتدى الفرنسيّة و الانقليزيّة طاقم الإدارة

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      07-09-2008 02:00
    i do agree with you brothers in the majority of what you have said, but i think that our union is always something that we can achieve, you know why? because WE still believe on it and that's really good as 1st step. i know there are lot of obstacles here but we have already the most important reason that other nations tried their best to get it; wich is people's awareness. i agree with you in stating the internal obstacles that face the union (regimes,systems...) but cant see any importance of the foreign obstacles.
    in other words,let's imagine that we reached the level that our internal problems are solved like a governmental consensus about the importance of the union and all the arabian regimes are ready to take it, do you think (at this level) that the USA or the EU or japan, china... can represent a problem for this dream to come true? i dont think so, cause simply we have all the keys to be in the strength position.
    i know that these internal obstacles are by themselves a big problem but at least it still in our hands.
     
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